The Gibson ES-335

This Guild Thunderbird is a very cool guitar (it has a kick stand). They were never popular but it’s still a very cool guitar. I bought this on impulse from the nice folks at Southside in Brooklyn and it sat in my shop and online unsold for years. Then Covid happened and the Thunderbird and all the other unsold not so popular guitars flew out the door.

I love a rising market. A rising market is an active market and and active market is good for everybody. The Covid pandemic wasn’t good for much but the increased “home” time brought a lot of new players and lapsed players back to the guitar after years or even decades of disinterest. The result was a very fast runup in prices and a considerable broadening of the market. Guitars that nobody wanted were suddenly flying out the door. My favorite example is a Guild Thunderbird that I bought on impulse because I thought it was a very cool (and a good playing) guitar. I must have had it up for sale for at least three years with no interest at all (write yourself a note…50’s and 60’s Guilds are great guitars and are massively underpriced and underrated). The Thunderbird sold early on during Covid as did many other sleeper guitars that were sitting around unsold and unplayed. For the core of the vintage market (Gibson, Fender and Martin), the prices just kept shooting up and this kept going for two years. Imagine a stock market where every stock goes up every day for two years. It can’t go on forever no matter how badly you want that to happen.

The Covid runup is over and there’s good news and bad news. The good news is that the high prices have leveled off. The bad news is that the high prices have leveled off. Depends if you’re buying or selling. Well, I do both and I have to strike a balance between profit and activity. The majority of sellers seem to believe that the appreciation they’ve gotten so used to will last forever. It’s over. But folks are still asking prices that are unrealistic and reflect the notion that the rate of increase is the same now as it was in 2020-2022. A good current example is a 1960 Bigsby ES-345 at $47,000. Or maybe a 64 Bigsby 335 for $43000. Even in the middle of Covid, these prices would have been unrealistic. I sold a Bigsby 64 not too long ago for $28,000. I sold a 60 (stop tail) 345 not too long ago during Covid for $26,000. I don’t know the marketplace for every guitar from every era but I know 60’s ES guitars and at least half the guitars listed online right now aren’t going to sell at their asking price. Probably more than half.

More good news. The market finds it’s own equilibrium. If a seller lists a guitar for a crazy high price, it will almost certainly sit for long enough that the seller will reconsider. If the seller is hoping that some billionaire collector will buy it because its chicken feed to him, the seller is delusional. I actually have a couple of billionaire clients and they are cheap. OK, frugal (how do you think they got to be billionaires). I am currently slowly lowering prices trying to get a handle on the market’s “set point”. Buyers will always negotiate and often lowball but they won’t let a well priced guitar that they really want get away. I’m a buyer too and while I can negotiate pretty hard, there are always guitars that I buy with my heart rather than my head (a bad thing for a dealer but a good thing for that same heart).

What I’m trying to accomplish here is to give all of you a dose of reality. I want you to get the guitar you want at a price that is sensible for the guitar market going forward. Nobody wants to buy at the top and watch the value drop but, as it turns out, a lot of guitars got bought at the top of the market and will eventually be sold…many at a loss. Buy smart and that won’t happen. Unfortunately, many of you bought during the pandemic and you paid top dollar. If you bought in 2022 and you need to sell now, breaking even is what you can expect-at best. I bought in 2022 just like you did and I’m probably going to take a loss on a few of them. But I can wait the market out whereas you may not be able to. My unsolicited advice is don’t be greedy. Price your guitar fairly so it will sell quickly. A stale listing (and I’ve got a few of them) is a tough sell. Besides, if you lose on the sale, you can make it up on the next one that you buy (and there’s always a next one).

I don’t have a crystal ball but I have some pretty good insight into the ES marketplace. Take the advice or don’t take the advice. It’s still the same old buy low sell high. Don’t buy as a pure investment. Buy something you will play and love. They aren’t mutually exclusive. There are guitars that are better insulated from a fickle market but that’s a whole other post. I’ll get to that one next.

Hey Bulldog. Another impulse buy and Covid sale. I can be really impulsive about buying oddball guitars and I could do an entire month of posts about all the “unusual” guitars that I simply had to have. As good as the Guild T-Bird at the top of this post was, the Vox Bulldog (can you say Mosrite?) wasn’t so good. Looks pretty cool but if that’s what you want, buy a Mosrite.

The sleeper of all sleeper guitars. Epiphone Wilshires. The only Gibson made guitar with 2 P90’s, stop tail and ABR-1 from 1958 until 1968. The only other is the LP Standard from 55-early 57 and 68 and later. From the left: 62, 61, 60 and the Custom Shop reissue from 2004 on the floor.

Folks ask me about my personal guitar collection all the time and they are always disappointed with the description…”I don’t have one.” It’s not that I don’t own any guitars, I own lots of them but I’m a dealer and I sell them. I do have a few “keepers” (and even they get sold on occasion) and I’d like to talk about one of my favorites. And it isn’t a 335. It isn’t even a Gibson (except it is but I’ll get to that). It’s the Epiphone Wilshire. The what??

First, a short history lesson. Somewhere around 1958, Epiphone was sinking rapidly toward bankruptcy and Gibson wanted the Epiphone upright bass line. A deal was made and Gibson got the name and the line of instruments. The bass thing never worked out and the instruments didn’t last long but the name became a whole new line of slightly lower priced guitars and amps that were nearly the same as the Gibsons of the era. Epiphone never made the models you know-Sheraton, Casino, Riviera, Wilshire, Crestwood and others. Those were all new models based on existing Gibson designs. Epiphone actually never made solid body guitars at all. The first Epiphone solids showed up in 59 as the Crestwood, Wilshire and Coronet. End of history lesson.

I started playing in local bands when I was in the 7th grade which would have been 1964. I had a new Fender Duo Sonic and a Princeton amp. Between 64 and 68, I probably played in a half dozen different bands and none of them lasted very long but all of them played local gigs and I became a fairly well known lead player among the local musicians (and hacks). In late 67 one of the better known local bands (named after an historic house in my hometown of Scotia, NY called Sanders Mansion) broke up and the keyboard player got the name but not much else. He put together a new band with the same name and I was tapped to play lead. We were six pieces (which meant we didn’t make much money considering the average pay for a night was around $100 for the better bands in the area (and $75 for most). We had two lead singers (one male, one female), keys, drums, bass and guitar. I played a Gibson ES-330 by then and was heavily influenced by Eric Clapton. Cream was at its apex and that’s what I wanted to sound like.

I couldn’t get the sound I wanted out of the 330 because as soon as I got the volume and tone settings right for the “woman tone”, the 330 would feed back and drive everybody nuts. I couldn’t afford to go out and buy something else but the lead singer (the male one) had a friend with a guitar I could borrow. It was a 62 Epiphone Wilshire in a falling apart cardboard case. I would borrow that guitar for every gig and use it on the Cream covers and a few other songs and it nailed the tones I wanted (without the feedback) and I became quite attached to it.

He wouldn’t sell it so I bought an SG and life went on without much change. Fast forward to 1995 or so. I haven’t played a gig since the mid 70’s and I’m starting to get interested in vintage guitars (with the advent of Ebay). The first vintage guitar I looked for was an Epiphone Wilshire but I couldn’t find any of the P90 version which they only made from 59 until 63. The mini humbucker version was out there but they had a very narrow nut and I knew I wouldn’t like that. So I bought a white, refinished 63 Crestwood for $600. It was the same as a Wilshire except it had mini humbuckers and a “Trem-o-Tone” vibrato. I sold that for a decent profit and suddenly, I was a vintage dealer. My personal Wilshire would have to wait.

Between ’95 and now, I’ve probably owned 15 60-63 Wilshires (I’ve never found a 59) and every one of them has been a great player. What’s so great about this guitar? Well, the P90 pickups, while somewhat limited in their tonal possibilities, are great for rock and roll and blues. The guitar weighs almost nothing (5 to 6 pounds usually), has great access to the upper frets and costs very little compared to most guitars from that era. It also has an unusual configuration. Two P90’s, ABR-1 bridge and stop tail. What’s so unusual about that? LP Special and SG Special both had wrap tails. ES-330 had a trapeze tailpiece. At the time, only the ’55 and 56 (and early 57) goldtop Les Paul had this configuration. If I’m given the choice between close to 9 lbs of mahogany over my shoulder and under 6 lbs, I’ll take the lighter one please. I’m not 16 any more (much to my chagrin).

I currently own four of them. A 60, two 61’s and a very good 2004 reissue made in the Gibson Custom Shop. The 61’s are for sale but the 60 is my go to guitar when I don’t want humbuckers. There is little difference between the 60, 61, 62 and 63 other than the neck profile, the logo and the position of the three way switch. The 60 is chunky. The rest are pretty slim and wide. There are mostly red ones although I know of a few white ones and one black one. Tuners were three on a side Klusons-usually oval button single lines although my 60 came from the factory with strip type Klusons (like an LP Special). All had unbound Brazilian boards and celluloid guards (which will off gas and make a mess if you don’t open the case once in a while). They are wonderful players and perhaps the easiest guitar to set up of any I’ve had. You can set it up and leave it for a month and it will still be in tune.

You can still find these in the $6000-$12000 range. Many (and probably most) have had the short seam tailpiece scavenged (it’s a $2500 part these days). Any Wilshire over $10K should be all original. Mods are common especially tuner changes. At $6000 for a slightly unoriginal or lightly modded Wilshire, you’re getting a huge bargain. A comparable early 60’s SG Special or LP Special will run you two to three times as much (and have a wrap tail).

This is the guitar I pick up when I want to play a solid body or I want a screaming rock and roll steamroller of a guitar. I love my 59 ES-345 but sometimes you gotta have P90’s. This is a very early 60. Note the “bikini” logo and oddly placed 3 way switch. That’s not the original case. I have it-it’s cardboard and pretty useless.

Not a Gibson but still, a Gibson. This is a 59 Sheraton-one of only 3 made. NY pickups, big vee neck, Frequensator tailpiece and the coolest guitar I’ve ever owned.

There are two answers to this question. The obvious one is “when it’s a Chinese fake.” The other one, if you know your guitar history isn’t that hard either-when it’s an 59-69 Epiphone. OK, go ahead and argue that the post ’69 Epiphone are still Gibsons but we all know they really aren’t. Gibson owns Epiphone but the folks who make modern Gibsons don’t make Epiphones. They are made all over Asia. They can be very nice guitars but that’s a different post. From 59-69 (more or less), Epiphone were made in Kalamazoo by the same folks, on the same assembly line, from mostly the same materials as your favorite Gibson models of the day. And they are wonderful guitars.

I really should write about the solid bodies at some point but since this blog is really about semi hollows, I’ll stick to them for now. Today, since I just got another one, I’ll talk about the Sheraton. The top of the Epiphone semi hollow line and the equivalent of the ES-355 (again, more or less). The Sheraton model didn’t exist before the sale of the Epiphone company to Gibson in, I believe, late 1957. In fact, nearly every “Gibson Epiphone” was a new model derived from an existing Gibson model. Epiphone was meant to be a lower line of guitars from the Gibsons but you would barely know that-the prices were pretty close and the specs were, other than the pickups, nearly identical. 

The Sheraton is a very fancy guitar. The inlay are much more intricate than the big blocks of a 355. The headstock inlay is pretty fancy as well. While nearly all 355’s were shipped with a Bigsby, the Sheraton was shipped with either a “Frequensator” trapeze or a “Trem-o-tone” vibrato tailpiece. The former is quite good, although the concept is a little weird. The Trem-o-tone looks pretty cool but it really doesn’t work very well. So, look for the frequensator if you are buying.

The Sheraton went through, essentially, three iterations before Epiphone was moved to Japan. The first is my favorite but all three are really great guitars if you can find them. The production numbers were really low. The first version had the best neck I’ve ever played on any guitar, ever. It’s a 5 piece with a fairly hard vee with good depth and a width close to 1 3/4″. These necks were leftovers from the old Epiphone NY factory and Gibson used them until they were gone (by 1961 or so). The fancy abalone and MOP inlays stayed for the duration however. The 59’s and most of the 60’s had what are known as NY pickups which were also a leftover part from Epiphone. They are, contrary to what you might read elsewhere, single coils, not mini hums. Great pickups but not real screamers. They are relatively low output and very sweet and musical.

1962 was a year of considerable change for the Sheraton. While the “short” headstock was yet to be extended, the neck lost 5 piece construction (the vee profile was gone by 61) and was contoured, more or less, like the Gibsons of the era-fairly wide (1 11/16″) and fairly slim (.82 or so). The NY pickup was gone and replaced by PAF mini hum buckers. These are excellent pickups but are more aggressive than the old ones and the guitar is rather a different animal. There are a few out there that were routed for the NY pickups but were fitted with mini hums and goof rings. Always plan ahead.

By 64, the Sheraton had acquired the long headstock that is still associated with the brand. The necks became slimmer still and the nut width was slimmed down to 1 9/16″. There are 64’s and 65’s and maybe even some 66’s with wider nuts-the Sheraton was such a low volume guitar that a 64 build could have been shipped as late as 66. Still fancy though right up to the end of the line in late 68. You might find one shipped as a 69 but that’s the year the brand was shipped off to Asia to become what it is today.

Vintage Sheratons are priced much lower than Gibson and are a real bargain in a market where bargains are rare. There aren’t a lot of them, so it might take some time for one to pop up for sale. I prefer the early ones but I’ve never played one I didn’t like. Blondes are stupid rare-you can count the 59’s and 60’s on one hand. You can count the 61-63’s on two hands and a foot. But even the rarest of the blondes can be had for under $30K. Compare that to a blonde 335 for as much as 4 times that. Or compare it to a blonde 355 which is early nonexistent. I’ve owned one. I know of just three more. The price of a blonde 355 can break into 6 figures with ease. Can’t find a blonde? A sunburst Sheraton is more common and usually priced around 30% lower than a blonde. Red ones are rare. 

One of the great truths about vintage guitars is the fact that rarity usually doesn’t count for much. We all know how valuable a 58-60 Les Paul is but there were more than 1600 of them made so it’s not exactly rare. A blonde 58-60 ES-335 can be had for less than half the price (still a lot of money) even though they made about 1/8 as many. Wait. It gets worse. Look at a less popular guitar like a blonde Epiphone Sheraton. A great, great guitar made right alongside the very pricey blonde 335’s, 345’s and 355’s. Some of those Gibson badged blondies have reached the $125,000 mark but a Sheraton? Not even close.

Let’s look at some raw numbers. There are only perhaps ten 59-64 blonde 355’s. They will sell in the $75K-$125K range depending on year. There are only 12 Sheratons from 59-60 (NY pickups) and 29 from 61-63. A 59 or 60 will cost you perhaps $28K if you can find one which I assure you, you probably can’t. A 61-62 blonde Sheraton will cost you maybe $22K. Need a

Anyway, you get the idea. Rare doesn’t count much especially in models that aren’t very popular. But there’s a whole ‘nother kind of rarity that needs a little sunlight. Take a very, very popular model like a 335. Within every year, there are rarities that you simply don’t see. The factory customs and one offs that you may not even be aware of. The blonde block neck is one of those. I know of two of them. A 63 and a lefty 64. There are probably a couple more out there but, believe me, you won’t see many of them. A red 59 dot neck (or a red 58) is another. I know of 6 red 59’s- most of which have Bigsby’s and, famously, one 58. There are around 10 red 59 345’s. There are 5 black 59 345’s and, as far as I know, 3 black 59 355’s, one of which belongs to Keith Richards. Here’s the reality. There is no logic to the values.

But a blonde block neck is rarer and impossible to set a fair value on. I’d rather have the more common blonde dot neck just because I like the earlier 335’s and they are so much easier to find. 211 blonde dot necks . 2 blocks. Do the math. A blonde block neck should be outrageously expensive. Block necks from 62-64 are wildly popular and not cheap-$20K plus for a good stop tail. So, where does that put a blonde 62-64 ES-335? Conventional wisdom used to be double the price of a common color. OK, the a blonde 63 should be $42K or so. Then why is a collector grade sunburst 59 dot neck $40K but a similar blonde is three times that (and 100 times more common than a blonde block)? Like I said, there is no logic.

There is an easily understood explanation to the seemingly random and illogical valuation of rare vintage guitars (this is the “verities” part of the post). It’s simple. Do you want one really badly? Yes? Then expect to pay some very serious money for it. That’s how it works.