The Gibson ES-335

Hot ticket item? Red big neck stoptail 63's and 64's. These don't ever last a week in my hands. Get 'em while they're hot.

I never buy and generally never consult the Vintage Guitar Price Guide or the Blue Book. I think the last one I bought was in 2009. It is my belief that they are trying to do the impossible which is to put some kind of market value on virtually every guitar made in the past 100 years. I know from my little teeny segment of the vintage guitar market that prices change a lot more than every year. A particular model/configuration can be hot in July and dead in August. The supply and demand is just too small to make the kind of generalizations that these publications make. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. How about the other dealers or Gbase, in general? Well, there are a few differing philosophies about how to sell a vintage piece. By far the most common is to put a big fat “sucker” price on it and wait to see if one takes the bait. Sometimes it works. Mostly it doesn’t. The dealers and individuals who use this method either don’t need to sell them, don’t want to sell them or are extremely negotiable. You know who you are. I think. Ultimately, it’s great for me that most dealers and individuals ask way too much for their guitars. While it makes it tough when I’m buying, they make it very easy for me when I have something to sell. It’s pretty easy to see why my guitars go on hold before I even get them and sell within a few weeks (or less). I’m not waiting for a sucker. I’m waiting for you-the serious buyer who does his home work and knows what he wants and how much he wants to spend. I sold around 100 guitars in 2012-the vast majority were ES-335s. How’s the market? Pretty good, actually. Stoptail block necks go the quickest and have been very strong this year breaking out of the mid-teens and pushing toward $20K for the first time since 2008. 64’s and big neck 63’s are leading the charge but more and more folks have come to appreciate the thinner 62’s and early 63’s. The best deal out there is an early 65 (big neck, trap tail). While the stops are getting up there, the early 65’s are still well under $10,000. Look for a big neck with a 17 degree headstock. There aren’t a lot of them but the later 14 degree headstock with the big neck is also a great choice. Don’t worry too much about nickel or chrome-it’s pretty random and easy and cheap to swap. While the stoptails have added 10-20% this year, the Bigsby-Custom made blocks have stood still. At $12K-$13K, they are a lot of guitar for the money. Dot necks held strong again, especially 58, 59 and early 60. These will likely stay strong-especially stops-and will continue to be in the mid to high 20’s and into the low $30K’s. Later 60’s and 61’s have softened a bit, IMO, dipping well below $20K even for really nice examples. What didn’t do so well this year from an investment standpoint? ES-345’s and stereo 355’s. Stoptail 345’s from 59 (and perhaps 60) are still doing OK but everything else has been in the doldrums. Stops in average condition from 60 to 64 have dipped below $10K which makes them a great bargain. ES-355 stereos are simply in the dumper. They were a very tough sell in 2012. Grab one in the $8K range if you can talk a delusional seller out of the $18K he thinks its worth. Mono 355’s, on the other hand, are pretty hot. I sold about ten of them this year and they were some of the best guitars I had. Average prices from 59-64 were over $10K and up into the low teens. What else is hot? Anything mint or close to it. Really high quality pieces are getting hard to come by and are starting to command some pretty serious premiums. The old “find another” cliche is alive and well. I’ll add a disclaimer-the variation in condition, originality and configuration makes my generalizations just that. Generalizations. If you come across a 335/345 or 355 that you’re interested in from another dealer, feel free to send me an email. I’ll be happy to guide you to a fair price-doesn’t mean you’ll get it but you won’t get played for a sucker either.

Toughest sell? ES-355 stereo. I don't think I sold a single one this year. The sellers want too much for them and the buyers know it. Nice guitars too but not worth the average $16-$18K the sellers want for an early one. Monos are the bomb, however.

That solid wire wrapped around the braid is the ground. If you're going to start pulling the harness or messing with any of the wiring, disconnect the ground from the braid or be extremely careful that you don't break that wire. If you break it at the other end, you'll be bummed big time.

I’m not an electrical engineer. I can sort of read a schematic and can muddle my way through a wiring diagram. One thing that has always escaped me is the finer points of grounding. I get that electrical circuits need to be grounded but beyond that, it gets a little sketchy. Let’s take a look into the grounds on a 335. The stoptail 335 has a kind of rigid, uninsulated wire that goes from the ground (braided wire) of the bridge pickup to the stud bushing on the treble side of the stoptail. So, in theory, as long as you are touching something that is touching the stop (like the strings), you complete the ground. The braided wire of the harness is the ground and it makes a circuit from the pickup braid to the bridge volume pot to the bridge tone pot AND to the three way which in turn goes to the neck volume pot and the neck tone pot and then to the jack. If the guitar has a Bigsby or a trapeze, the ground wire goes all the way to a hole drilled near the strap button at the butt end of the guitar and is connected (by being butted up against) to the Bigsby or trapeze. Most factory guitars with both a Bigsby and stoptail studs have both ground wires.  Simple, right? You would think. The problem is that there are 20 different ways to screw it up. The worst is if you break the very fragile ground wire that goes to the stud. There is no way to replace it without jumping through some serious hoops. Trust me, you do NOT want to do this, so be really careful with that wire. If you’re removing a pickup or the harness for any reason, unsolder the ground wire from the pickup braid first or be really careful to avoid any strain on it. If you break that wire and it will break a lot more easily than you think, take the guitar to someone with skill and experience with 335s. The likelihood is that a new hole will have to be drilled in the center block to rout the new ground wire. You can’t use the old hole because the old ground wire is broken off and is stuck in it. If the wire broke with some of the wire sticking out, then you have a shot a removing it or soldering an extension on to it. To do it right, you have to pull out the bushing (not an easy task either), stick the new wire through the new (or old) hole and reinstall the bushing so it contacts the end of the wire and holds it in place. Yikes. The good news is that if you have a trap tail or a Bigsby, you aren’t likely to break the wire, nor is it that big a deal to replace it. There is an alternative that worked for me. I had purchased a stoptail 345 and it had a terrible hum, so I naturally assumed the ground wire was off. Well, it wasn’t off, it was gone. I don’t have the skills (or the confidence) to start drilling holes in the centerblock with any hope of it actually coming out in the little hole that the stoptail stud goes into. So I ran a very thin wire from the bridge pickup braid out under the pickup ring and wrapped it around the treble side bridge post. Because it was a long guard 345, the wire was pretty well hidden. It worked fine. I had a 65 ES-335 that was originally a stoptail and then had a Bigsby added but someone neglected (or were too lazy) to install a ground wire in the stud hole. So they did almost the same thing I did but they put a small lug on the end and just threaded it to the bridge post. It worked fine but you could see it. Best solution? Don’t break it in the first place.

This is another, less elegant solution. Instead of going to the stud bushing, the ground goes to the bridge post. The trouble is that it's visible. It didn't bother me very much but it is somewhat out of the ordinary. This was a 65 with studs and a Bigsby. There was no ground wire to the Bigsby, so we can only assume that it was added and somebody broke the original ground wire.

M69 pickup rings come in a few sizes. The middle one and the one on the right are the typical ES-335 sizes. The bigger one sometimes shows up as a bridge ring but is more typically found on Les Pauls or ES-175s.

Want to get a Les Paul guy all excited? In the immortal words of Mr. McGuire in “The Graduate” …”Plastics”.  It must be something about white plastic that gets them going (and big prices) because most of us ES-335 types don’t really get that worked up.  The little bitty piece of plastic they get all hyperventilated about? Pickup rings. You think it’s crazy that a little decal on a pickup can make a $1000 or more difference, you ain’t heard nothin’ yet. A pair of black pickup rings will cost you a pretty ridiculous $275. A pair of (authentic) white ones? $10,000 or more. I get a surprising number of emails asking about these things. Questions about the height of the bridge pickup ring is a big one. Because the rings were made in a number of different heights, it’s no wonder there is some inconsistency in them . To be certain that your ES has the correct rings, look at the underside. If your ES is from the 60’s or earlier, then both rings will have the letter M and the number 69 on them. That’s why they call them M69 rings. The left leg of the letter M is always missing or weak. Some fakes don’t get it right but there aren’t a lot of fakes out there in black. There are plenty of repro white ones (which didn’t come on any ES except the ES-295).  There are all kinds of “mold marks” and little inconsistencies in the rings which is important in identifying whether they are original or repros. If you want the really fine details, you can find them on Clay H’s excellent vintage guitar site here.  I can’t do better than he has done-it is very comprehensive.  I will note that all of the little “mold marks” that he catalogs aren’t always there-probably due to wear and inconsistencies in the pouring of the molds. I just pulled a pair off an all original 59 ES-355 and the bridge ring is missing a few on the bottom. I usually make the assumption that if the pickups are original and the plastic shows the M69 and other “readable” markings and the right amount of wear for the guitar they are on, then they are probably original. If a “mold mark” is missing from the bottom, don’t lose any sleep.  There is often a lot of wear on them-even the bottom.  Also worth noting is that the rings on an ES-335 are not the same height as those on a Les Paul. The neck ring on a 335 is 3/16″ tall on the tall side and 5/32″ on the short side. The bridge ring is taller but not as tall as the one on a Les Paul (or an ES-175). The bridge ring should measure 3/8″ on the taller side and 9/32″ on the short side. I have occasionally seen a taller version of the bridge pickup ring on some later 60’s ES-335s. While it’s often impossible to tell what’s original and what isn’t 50 years after a guitar was made, I’m guessing that taller rings were sometimes used as the neck angles became steeper . The “tall” rings are more like LP rings and measure 1/2″ at the tall side and 13/32″ on the short. There might be some variation in the heights from wear and from the fact that people sometimes sand them down to make a curve that fits the arch of the guitar. Black M69s have gotten a little pricey lately but they come on so many models that there is no shortage of them. There is another number on the underside of the rings and it will be MR490 on the bridge ring and MR491 on the thinner neck ring. If your ring says M8, it’s from the 70’s or later. I’m not certain exactly what year the change was made-I don’t see a lot of 70’s ES’s. By the early 80’s, they were using M8’s. Feel free to help me out here. One other thing to note is that if you pull the ring on a blonde or sunburst model and you see a thin red line where the edge of the ring sat, it’s normal. The plastic in the rings reacts slightly with the nitrocellulose lacquer and very often leaves a faint red ring. It probably leaves the same ring on the red finished ones as well-you just can’t see it. I’ll take a photo next time I see it.

You can see the little halfmoon shaped mold marks on the cleaner of the two M69 neck pickup rings but just because thet are mostly worn off on the other one doesn't make it any less authentic. Wear on these rings is pretty common, so if a mark is missing, don't sweat it.

This could be the prettiest blonde I've ever seen (not counting my wife, of course). And it's a refin. But I want it. For me.

One of the great mysteries of vintage collecting is the conventional wisdom that a refinished guitar is worth half the value of one with its original finish-no matter how worn or deteriorated it might be.  As a former car guy, I can tell you that a refinished car is worth more than a car with a totally destroyed original finish but perhaps that’s apples and oranges. It seems collectible furniture follows a similar code to that followed by vintage guitar enthusiasts so we’re not the only crazies out there. There has been a small shift in the refin paradigm recently and I think its a good thing. Because the nuttiest of all collectors are Les Paul enthusiasts, it’s interesting that they are the ones leading the charge here. In the past few years, the Les Paul aficionados have taken to getting extremely high end refinishes and other modifications done to their reissue Les Pauls. The leader in this cottage industry is Historic Makeovers. They are very busy guys and they do very, very  good work. Now, there are folks selling their refinished LPs, noting which Makeover package was done, and charging a premium. That’s a game change if I’ve ever seen one. It kind of started with aging/relic’ing but it took a while for actual refinishes to command a premium. But now they do. There are a handful of finishers whose work is so respected that to have your guitar refinished by them is no longer an instant 50% drop in the value.  I think the biggest difference here is that these elite refinishers are doing a much better (and authentic) job than the folks at Gibson are doing and , frankly, given the cost of these refins, they should be. I can’t tell you how the vintage market will feel about these in 40 years when your R9 really is vintage. There is nothing comparable that occurred during the 50s and 60s unless you count minor custom work done outside the Gibson factory. Things like custom inlays, engraved pickguards and the like are fun and kind of cool (at least I think so) but they don’t command a premium unless the name on the fingerboard is Elvis Somebody. So, when my son is my age and he’s looking for a nice vintage 40 year old Gibson from, say, 1998 will the one with the Historic Makeover command more than the Murphy relic? Or will the factory stock one be the one that appreciates?  I don’t have my crystal ball handy. At the moment, this is mostly a Les Paul phenomenon but they have done some work on recent ES models as well. The reason I bring all of this up is because of a refinished 1959 ES-345 that has been offered to me at a price somewhat higher than you would think it was worth using the usual criteria. But then you look at it and you realize that this isn’t just a refin, it’s a restoration at something approaching museum quality. The finish looks stunning, the wood is stunning, the guitar is stunning. I am, in fact, stunned. My good judgment says don’t overpay for this but my usually hard heart (at least when it comes to guitars) says otherwise. Let me remind you, I’m the guy who found two of the rarest ES’s on earth (the very first red 345 and a red 59 335) and sold ’em both without batting an eye. The reason I don’t overpay for guitars is to keep you from having to. But this one is different-it tugs at my heart and says “buy me”.  It may have to take up permanent residence here at the OK corral.

This looks to be a 63 Historic refinished by HM. Very authentic looking dark red 63-64 cherry. The lacquer they used during this period tends to yellow more than earlier years browning out the red a bit and really making the bindings go yellow. Too bad they can't fix the ears.

You think this is scary? Try spending $20K on a guitar you've never seen.

Seeing as it’s October and Halloween is right around the corner, I thought a fright themed post made some sense. You want scary? One of the scariest things you can do is buy an expensive guitar sight unseen. Digital photos make it very easy to get a sense of what’s going to show up at your doorstep but they can be deceptive. Equally deceptive are some sellers who go to great lengths to hide issues and then tell you to “look at the photos” when you question something. I will say that most sellers are eager to please and will go out of their way to answer your questions if they can and even start turning screws in some instances. So here’s a compilation of the really scary things that you have to look out for when you buy a guitar sight unseen. Removed pickup covers: It seemed that everybody removed the pickup covers from their humbuckers in the 70’s. We all believed that the covers were keeping the pickups from their full output so we took ’em off and promptly lost them. The scary part is that, in my experience, at least a third of the pickups that have been opened have had at least one coil rewound or repaired. Play an uncovered humbucker for long enough and your bound to wear through a wire-whether a lead wire or a winding. The other problem is that it’s often impossible to get an inexperienced seller to start taking Grandpa’s old guitar apart. So, you rolls the dice. Funky finish at the neck join: I hate to pass on a guitar just because the glue at he neck join might be getting flaky or the finish is showing some signs of abuse. On the other hand, it could be a sign that the neck was reset or repaired. This is a huge problem on SGs and less of one on 335s. Nonetheless, a less than perfect join is cause for concern. The likelihood of the current non player owner knowing how it got that way is pretty slim. Asking the seller to pull the neck pickup so I can see what’s going on in the neck pocket is dicey as well. Checking at the headstock: This really scares me. It’s sometimes hard to tell a check from a crack when you’re 2 inches away from the guitar. Trying to tell from a photo can be impossible. The best thing to do is try to see if any of the cracks follow a grain line as that’s where they usually crack. Beat up case-perfect guitar. Of course, the idea is that the case protects the guitar but if the case is absolutely beat to hell and there’s barely a scratch on the guitar, my “refin” alarm goes off. There are folks who take impeccable care of their stuff and people who don’t. We all know the guy in the band who would never let you even touch his guitar and wiped it down between sets (or songs) and even cleaned the case if it got scuffed. He would also insist that his guitar ride in the car and not in the van with the rest of the gear.  We also know the guy who, as Mike Bloomfield is reputed to have done, shows up with his guitar without a case covered with snow and leans it up against the radiator until it dries off. Beware of that beater guitar in a perfect “original” case. The case wear and the guitar wear can be pretty far apart but use some common sense. Neck issues: The good news is that Gibson necks are fairly stable and most of the problems you might encounter are fixable-although they may be pretty invasive and expensive. The bad news is that most sellers don’t disclose any neck problems-usually because they don’t know. Most guitars will play even with severe neck trouble but they won’t play well and they won’t play everywhere on the fingerboard.  Perhaps the scariest part of getting a new guitar is taking off the truss rod cover and seeing that the truss is either screwed all the way down or that the nut is loose. Having a backbow and a loose nut is trouble. But even that can be addressed. The solution to all this fright is to make an attempt to see and play the guitar in question in person or have a friend who plays check it out. Finally, if you drive 6 hours to check out a guitar and it isn’t right and you can’t negotiate a new deal, walk away. Get back in the car and drive home. I’ve done it more than once (six hours each way). You’ll feel like you’ve wasted a day but it sure beats feeling like you wasted your hard earned money.

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Everyone has seen the usual paperwork and keys and stuff (yes, that's the red 59 ES-345) but there's sometimes other stuff in there as well.

I usually include the case candy and miscellaneous crap with a guitar when I sell it . Most of this stuff is from guitars in my own closet. I have a shoebox full of crap like this.

There are two things I love about getting a “new” vintage guitar. One is checking out the bobbins on the pickups-there’s nothing like an “undisclosed” double white or zebra. It happens more often than you would expect. It’s a little like winning the lottery (albeit a rather small one).  The other thing I love is checking out the case pocket. Let’s see what’s in there…Along with the really obvious stuff like the instruction manual, the pickup height adjustment instructions, the Varitone instructions (345s and stereo 355s), the ABR-1 instruction sheet, there were a few other Gibson  items as well that  generally got lost. There was almost always a leather strap-usually brown and sometimes stamped with the name of the music store. It was never a very good strap but we all seemed to use them at least until we had a little extra money saved to buy something hipper. There was also a polishing cloth which either never got used or got used to death. You know the guy in your band who would let anybody even breathe on his guitar who always wiped it down between sets (and even between songs) and then had a fit when he got a ding in the headstock from a cymbal or stand and then blamed it on you? He’s the guy who used the cloth. The rest of us left it in its little bag in the case. Then there’s the little yellow screwdriver with the pocket clip. These usually got lost in the first week or so but I’ve managed to accumulate 3 or 4 of them. Case keys in the little yellow manila envelope are always a welcome surprise but, alas, not a very frequent one. There must not have been a truss rod wrench because in all the years I’ve been buying these guitars I’ve never seen one in a case pocket. I have seen some pretty weird stuff. Strings-tons of ’em-often used. Who saves used strings? I’ve found banjo and mandolin strings (in a guitar case), set lists from all genres, original sales receipts, all manner of business cards from bars to cathouses to lawyers, Musicians Union manuals and time cards (especially from the late 50’s and early 60’s), photos of bands, wives, girlfriends, even a few “racy” photos that seem tame by today’s standards. Interestingly, given the period and the nature of musicians, I’ve never found any drugs in a guitar case. No pot stashed in the pickup cavity, no coke taped under the pickguard and no pills in the case pocket. I guess they all use them up before they sell the guitar or maybe the thing about musicians using drugs is just a big myth. The picks are always interesting-often from a local music store but sometimes imprinted with a band name. Fender picks seem to be the most ubiquitous. I’ve probably found at least 50 of them rattling around inside the guitars. I even found one stuck under the sideways vibrato that had actually reacted with the surface of the finish. You could see the big backwards Fender “F” and the word “medium” etched into the clear coat of the guitar. I once found half a dollar bill-probably some deal made with a woman in the audience that they’d meet in twenty years at the top of the Empire State Building each with their “half” dollar and something wonderful would happen (actually, I think that was a movie).  Dog toys. How do dog toys get in the case pocket? Maybe Alice knows.

This is Alice, my former wire fox terrier who liked to sleep in the case while I practiced and always brought a toy.

You can see where the kerfed spruce meets the laminated top in this photo. There is no space there at all which was the intent of the inventor. If you tap around the area over the center block you'll find areas that seem to be a bit looser

I have a client who is always interested in how resonant these guitars are. He’s a jazz player and he prefers the instrument to have some acoustic qualities which was the intent of the inventor, Ted McCarty (with a nod to Les Paul). Anyone who has played more than a few ES-335s and their brethren will notice that, from a resonance standpoint, they are not created equal. There are a few reasons for this. I’ve covered the first reason before but I’ll summarize. Some 335s, all 345s and most 355s have part of the center block removed to make assembly easier and to accomodate the varitone choke in stereo models. More airspace in there means more resonance. The difference is not all that great and I don’t think it makes all that much difference. I’ve had folks insist on uncut center blocks in their 62-64 ES-335s and most of them have that feature. Certainly there are more cut blocks by 64 but it’s by no means consistent. Now the other reason is a little more speculative. Because the top of the guitar is arched and the center block is flat, there is a space between the top and the block. Gibson’s solution was to place a piece of kerfed spruce in there to fill the gap. Perhaps they felt the spruce would add some resonance as well since it is not as dense as maple and is typically used for acoustic guitar tops. Recently, I’ve noticed that some 335s have a better fit than others or there has been some shrinkage or separation in there over the years. If you own a 335, 345 or 355, do a tap test. Tap on the top in the area where you know the center block is and listen to where it resonates and where it doesn’t. It really shouldn’t resonate anywhere except by the bridge pickup if the block is cut. What I’ve found is that the guitars that have the greatest acoustic qualities tend to have some air space between the top and the block, particularly between the bridge and the endpin. I’ve also found some with air space in the area between the pickups, which is where I kind of expected to find it since the arch in the top is a little more pronounced there. I have two 65s right now-one is a Bigsby and one is a traptail. Both are early 65 big necks but one rings out like an ES-175 and the other is as quiet as a typical Les Paul when unplugged. When I tap the resonant 65 on the lower part of the body over the block, it sounds hollow. When I tap the Bigsby equipped, it sounds solid. Part of this could be related to the fact that the Bigsby version has two screws through the top, essentially screwing the top to the spruce pieces. That would make sense if traptails were consistently more resonant. But they aren’t. They are actually, slightly less resonant, in general, than a stoptail. Interestingly, the difference doesn’t really translate to the amplified sound of the guitars all that much. The two guitars don’t sound that different once you crank ’em up. Neither feeds back. So, does it matter how much resonance you semi has? Probably not, if you like the way it sounds when it’s plugged in. I play my guitars unplugged a lot and I kind of like being able to really hear my 335 when I sit on the couch while I watch a ballgame and practice at the same time. Would I go out of my way to find a really resonant one? Again, probably not. What I really should do is to buy myself a 330 for the couch.

maybe the two screws in the top of the guitar from the Bigsby have kept the wood from separating and causing an air pocket between the top and the block. Then again, maybe not.

Here's a 59 ES-355 I had a while back which illustrates the fancy ES-355 7 ply (count 'em) binding around the top. You can also see the tortoise guard with its added binding. Finally, you can see how yellow the bindings get with age from the yellowing of the lacquer. Compare that to the binding on the 2007 Historic down at the bottom.

Most players don’t give a whole lot of thought to the bindings on a guitar. Usually, they’re white and they turn yellow with age. End of story. But, whether you care or not, the bindings are one of the things that set the ES models apart from each other. The ES-335 at the bottom of the ES semi hollow line have a single ply binding top and back. The earliest 335s didn’t even have a bound fingerboard but that was remedied fairly early on during the early part of 1958. All ES models have the same binding on their fingerboards-single ply with little nibs at each fret and tortoise dot markers in the usual locations. As you move up the scale, the bindings get fancier and the price gets higher (and the hardware and circuits change, etc.).

Oooh, mint 60 ES-345. I particularly like the three ply top binding. Classes it up without looking like a ten dollar hooker.

The middle of the line ES-345 has a 3 ply white/black/white binding on the top and a single ply binding on the back. The additional black stripe in the body binding classes it up a bit without being ostentatious. Did somebody say ostentatious?  Well, the ES-355 at the top of the line has its detractors (tarted up like a cheap whore, pimpmobile guitar, etc) but I like the over the top 7 ply binding on the top of a 355. Five ply wasn’t enough for these somewhat overpriced instruments…it had to be seven. w/b/w/b/w/b/w is how it goes with the black layers being very thin. The back gets the 3 ply binding that the top of the 345 uses (waste not, want not, I guess). The 355 also gets the bound headstock which no other ES semi has as well as a bound pickguard. The neck binding is the same as the rest of the line which is kind of surprising considering how fancy some of the neck bindings are on the high end archtops. The 60 Byrdland I sold a while back has a 5 ply (it might even be 6) neck binding. Something worth pointing out is that these bindings really were white-not the beige off white that Gibson uses now. The binding were made of a plastic called Royalite which is still available both in white and off white. One of the things that makes “reissue” and “Historic” guitars look like reissue guitars is the bindings. The color is solid beige. When a vintage ES ages, the lacquer which started off clear on the white bindings, turns yellow, making the bindings look aged and yellow. The blonde Historics with their beige bindings just look wrong. It seems like it would make more sense to use an amber lacquer over white than to use a beige binding. Probably costs an extra $1.75 per guitar to do that. Take a look at a really well played vintage 335, 345 or 355. You’ll see that the areas of heavy wear on the bindings are often pure white. You could wear the binding right off a Historic and it would still be beige. Yeah, it’s one of those things that Gibson could easily get right but they just figure that nobody notices. Granted, you probably never paid all that much attention to the bindings on your ES either but aren’t glad somebody does?

You wanna see some fancy bindings? This is my old 60 Byrdland. Them's some real purty bindings. Makes your 335 look a little sad, doesn't it? Like the girl who shows up at the prom in pants.

Yuk. You call these "Historic"? They look even worse on the red ones.

I should have named this one "Jarlsberg" . I've never seen a guitar with more holes in it. Refinished but pretty much original, if I recall. This, my friends, is a player. And it sounded as good as any.

When you deal with such a tiny segment of the vintage market it allows you to see a snapshot of the whole market. We’ll take Les Paul Standards out of the conversation since they march to their own drummer. What I’m talking about is how to play the vintage market for maximum fun and for maximum value. The last post should have given you a pretty good idea of the market as of August 2012 but there are some general factors that will always be the same. A mint guitar will always command a premium and will always be the best investment you can make whether at the top of the market or the bottom. They fall the least during a pullback and they rise the most during an upswing. But they come with an additional price on top of the high price they already command. Call it the “mint tax”.  You can read about it here. Then there is the great middle ground where you’ll find the great bulk of vintage 335s/345s and 355s. Those are the well cared for examples that have an issue or two. Changed tuners is the most common. Player wear, refret, changed pot or removed pickup covers and missing stickers all fall into this category. These are guitars that can be very expensive when in great condition and, in most cases, can be played without fear of turning a mint guitar into an average one. After all, that’s how mint guitars become players. They were all mint once upon a time. They get played. Interestingly, these one or two issue guitars are the hardest to sell. The fussy collector doesn’t want it because it won’t lead the market nor will it give him (or her) the bragging rights that go with it. And don’t diminish bragging rights. Read any guitar forum and see who the “bull goose loony” is. He’s the guy with the best guitars. You know who you are and it’s a position of some status, to be sure. Only the well known pro players get more respect. Who doesn’t like a little respect from one’s peers?  That takes me to the pieces that sell in a minute or less. These are the players. The guitars from the Golden Era that don’t cost much more than the current crop of Historics, special “artist” models” and “anniversary” editions that Gibson throws out there for the aficionados (and suckers depending on the model). These are guitars with unfixable issues that just won’t go away no matter how much dough you sink into your guitar. These are guitars that are refinished, have headstock repairs, Bigsby, or worse, Maestro holes, holes from coil taps, multiple tuner replacements, changed hardware and a whole host of other atrocities that render them “players”. Pssst…I’ll let you in on a secret. They sound every bit as good, in most cases, as the mint ones or the “average” ones. They sometimes sound better. This assumes that the pickups are still in it and the electronics are still more or less stock. They may sound just as good with changed pickups too, but I wouldn’t make that a blanket statement. They can be gigged without too much fear of theft or damage and you can turn around and sell them for exactly what you paid in this market.  Half price or less. As a dealer, I buy up a lot of these, although I tend to stay away from headstock cracks (I hate surprises). Refins? Bring ’em on-I’ll buy every one you find. The second (or maybe third) best 335 I ever had was a refin. Removed Bigsbys? OK, so there are 6 extra holes. Close your eyes when you play-you’ll look more intense and you won’t see all the holes. I had an ES-335 that had 29 extra holes. Twenty nine!! And a refin. How do you even get that many holes in a guitar? Easy. Two different trems (10 holes),  an armrest (5 holes), and backpad (8 holes) and a set of Grovers for an additional 6. That’s how. It was a 64 ES-335, I believe. It played absolutely great and sounded as good as my everyday player. I think I sold it for $5500. A lot of money for a guitar but not a lot for a 64 ES-335.

Don't think the market has bottomed? This guitar sold for $10K-original stoptail with Grovers. So it had some wear. Still... around $10K for a stop 64? That was March 2011. I think you missed the bottom.

I get asked to give my opinion on the current state of the ES market all the time and since I haven’t done it for a while, the Dog Days of Summer might be a good time to take a fresh look. Nothing-and I mean nothing-will stop the big dealers (and the Ebay sellers who copy them) from asking the big prices. A lot of the guitars that are STILL on the market were bought at or near the top and these folks are trying to recoup their investment. Remember to negotiate-these guys don’t expect that you’re going to pony up $28000 for a 64 ES-335. The worst they can say is no. Same as me.  Don’t think for a second that you might be insulting someone with an offer that you believe is viable. They have no trouble insulting you with asking prices that are in the stratosphere (is the a Telesphere?). A lot of folks don’t like to negotiate and I understand that but the alternative is paying more than a guitar is worth or passing on a guitar you might have been able to get for a reasonable price. The reason I chose August to do this post is because this is a really slow time of year. The dealers aren’t moving as much merchandise and every business needs to generate cash. How do you do that if stuff isn’t selling for your asking price? You either lower the price or start negotiating.  I lowered a bunch of prices just yesterday. While most of you know I work on a slimmer margin than many dealers, I also have no overhead (and a real job) so I can keep my prices a bit lower than many other dealers.  And, since I specialize in a very narrow range of guitars, I don’t get stuck with a lot of dogs I can’t sell. We all know the bubble burst in 2008. The decline wasn’t breathtaking in its speed but was pretty substantial in the case of some guitars. SGs got killed but they had run up so far, so fast. Among the ES models, the 345s and 355s took it pretty hard dropping 30% or more between 2008 and 2011. Among 335s, the block necks got hit pretty hard and the later dots as well but the 58 and 59 dot necks held up very well. Also worth noting-the market for some ES models has come back a fair amount since last year. Not everything-Bigsby 345s and stereo 355s are still a very tough sell unless they are mint or are 59s. Bigsby/Custom Made block necks (other than 64s) have gotten whacked pretty good as well but they are back on the mend. While they were flirting with the high teens back in ’08, they dropped to $9K-$12K depending on condition. Mint stuff has held up pretty well throughout. Well played stoptail block necks bottomed out at around $10K but didn’t stay there for long. I sold at least one for $10K that was all original but pretty beat up. There are two bright spots for the seller. well, three if you count early dot necks. No issue stoptail block necks have come back nicely into the mid to high teens and up over $20K for really clean big neck 63s and 64s. The smaller neck ones lag slightly unless they have PAFs. Early dot necks are and have been strong throughout the recession. They don’t sell quickly but the prices have held on-or the sellers are holding out for better times. I’ve seen very few bargains in 58 and 59 dot necks. 61 and early 62s are a great deal right now in the low to mid teens for average examples with minor issues or wear.  Finally, mono 355s are becoming much more popular and have inched up from their lows of last year. I recall a 60 selling for around $8K on Ebay that we all should have jumped on. As I wrote recently, I think they are the big bargain right now when priced in the $9K-$13K range for 59-64s with Bigsby or sideways trems. Don’t get me started on Maestros-I don’t mind them on SGs but I stay away from them on ES ‘s.  Look for my post on “break angle” to find out why. If I were a buyer with a budget in the $12000 range, I’d be looking at 60-61 dot necks and 59-61 PAF equipped 355 monos. Get your negotiatin’ shoes on and go buy something before everybody gets back from vacation. We’ll look at later ones later.

A 61 Bigsby dot neck for $12K? OK, it had a couple of "mystery holes" in the top but was all there with its original PAFs. This was last Spring.