FON or Serial Number?
Here’s a 60 FON. The letter is the year T for 58, S for 59, R for 60 and Q for 61 and then they stop. The number that follows is a three or four digit number and that designated the “rack”-usually 30-40 guitars. The last number is the “rank” or the guitars number within the rack. Confused?
Pet peeve warning…I’ve talked endlessly about how so many sellers will look up their guitar serial number and when they see multiple years come up will usually pick the earliest year. Understandable? Yes, I suppose but not particularly honest and pretty easy to debunk. Trying to get more money for your guitar by misrepresenting the year and making it look justified is wrong. Either disclose the possible years or learn how to tell the difference. Pretty straightforward, right? Good. Now try this:
From 58 to 61, there was both a serial number and a factory order number for all 335’s, 345’s and 355’s. FON’s existed way before 58 but since 335’s didn’t, we’ll look at only those 4 years. There is no debate that, in general, a 59 335, 345 or 355 is worth more than any other year, assuming the condition and originality is equal. Usually, the FON and the serial are from the same year. But not always. So, how do we assess the value of those guitars that have a factory order number from one year and a serial number another? I recently bought a J200 for a client that was advertised as a 59. When I got it, I noted that the serial number was very early 60. I currently have a 59 ES-335 with a 58 FON and I recall a blonde 60 345 with a 59 FON. One thing you won’t see is a FON from a later year than the serial. This is simply because the FON goes on the guitar first.
So, I have this 59 ES-335 with a 58 FON. That means it was built (or at least started) in 1958. It could have been completed in 1958 as well but there is no absolutely foolproof way to know for sure. But there are clues. It has the thin top of a 58, so that tells us that it’s got some 58 aspects. It’s got a pretty good neck angle-no thin bridge or shaving required-so that’s kind of a 59 thing but there were very late 58’s with that feature. The tuners are patent numbers rather than the patent applied tuners that nearly all 58’s had which leads me to believe that it was built in late 58 and assembled in 59. Why the completed body sat around from sometime in late 58 until April of 59 is a mystery. I had another 335 with a 58 FON that didn’t ship until August of 59. Maybe they built a load of 58’s and put them aside because Gibson was getting complaints about the cracks around the jack (typical of 58’s). Then, perhaps they were selling more than they could built in mid 59 and raided this cache of 58’s. I’ve spoken to a couple of Gibson employees from the era but none could shed any light on this. My point is-do I consider it a 58 or a 59? It is to my advantage to call it a 59. But what about that 60 with the 59 FON? Again, I’m probably going to get more for it if I call it a 59. So, it works both ways. But you can’t have it both ways, can you? My hard rule is that I go by the serial number, i.e a 60 serial means it’s a 60 regardless of the FON. I’ll mention the FON in all cases if it’s different so I’ll list the guitar for sale as, say, a 1959 ES-335 with a ’58 FON. That’s about as honest as I can be.
I’ve been compiling a FON database for a couple of years now and I’m still filling in some of the blanks before I post it. There are lots of surprises and ambiguities. It seems that the more I learn, the more confusing it becomes. I’ve never run a large manufacturing business, so I have little insight into the day to day operations of a factory. Especially a factory operating more than 50 years ago. I’m convinced that they worried less about paperwork and more about filling orders. I’ll post the database when I have enough information for it to make some sense because now, with around 130 entries (all 335, 345 and 355’s) it’s about as clear as mud. Feel free to continue sending me data-serial, FON, model, finish and configuration (stop or Bigsby). No names will be entered.
This is an April 59 serial number 335 with the 58 factory order number T7281 24. I call it a 59.
Doesn’t sound all that confusing to me. I think of the FON as the start date of making a guitar and the serial number as the “finished on” date. Depending on how long it took to make a particular guitar (length of time between FON and SN) changes could have been made regarding build specs. Some major changes happened in a short amount of time.
The FON is a good general indicator of the age of the instrument and, as I think Charlie has pointed out, just one of many elements that must be considered in accurately dating a vintage Gibson!
Ah, I love the FON mystery. Thanks for posting about it again, Charlie. And by the way, that’s a fabulous 59 335 with a 58 FON!
Hello. Thank you so much for your very informative site about the 335. I am attaching a picture of a label inside a 335. Anyway you could tell me the date? Thanks again. -Jeff
email sent
Great info! I’ve been trying to date my ES 335. I’ve always thought it was a ’66 but after a little digging around, there is one ’69 characteristic.
Serial number is 8316XX…it has a 1-9/16 nut, trapeze tailpiece, nylon saddle, FON number stamped inside the guitar is 12235 and a little square smudge after the 5. The FON could be I2235 instead of 12235. The logo has a low crown, open ‘o’ and an open ‘b’. The one thing throwing me is the dotless ‘i’. Everything else is telling me 1966. Any thoughts what else to look for without removing any parts?
A 66 or a 69 won’t have a factory order number. Those stopped in 1961, so the number must be something else. That serial number, according to the chart I use was used twice-in 66 and in 69. You say everything says 66 except the missing dot but everything you describe as 66 also applies to 69. A 69 will have…1 9/16″ nut, low crown, open “o” and open “b”, trapeze, nylon saddles. I know you’d like it to be a 66 but, unless it was re-necked, it’s a 69. Only 69 and 70 have the missing dot.